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Author Topic: Twin charged 22rte??  (Read 4674 times)
dabsnap400
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Twin charged 22rte??
« on: June 28, 2011, 06:39:12 PM »

 Ok this is kind of a weird topic but im trying to think of a way to get some low end tq on my rte. Im currently running 13psi with a inter cooler and t3/t4 turbo. this thing is just to lazy on the bottom for me when im off road. I have 2 Eaton blowers sitting in my garage and i was wondering of anyone has tried compounding on these engines. I was thinking about having my turbo force feeding a supercharger with 7psi then having the supercharger do the other 5psi. I have a m62 blower that is off of a 07 ss cobalt, Its a 1.0l charger. And i have a m90 off of a 96 Pontiac 3.8l, its a 1.62l charger. I was thinking of making a totally 1 off intake manifold to put the charger in the manifold. Any one ever tried anything like this on a 22re engine or rte? If not is there anyway to get some low end out of this engine? And if this helps at all i believe that the trd supercharger for the 3.4 v6 tacos had a m62 blower.
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86 yota pickup 22rte, 4x4, sr5, t3/t4 turbo, intercooled, 13psi boost, SAS, 5 inch trail-gear long travel kit, 5:29 gears, locked front and rear, duel t cases custom bumpers with winch, 38s
86 yota longbed 22rte, 4x4 ,dlx, 5-speed, 9psi, snow plow
Turd Furgeson
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2011, 07:00:07 PM »

I don't know how that will work on a 22rte,but the older out dated transit busses where I live have a 2 stroke v8 detroit deisel that has a roots style supercaharger that is fed by a turbo. They explained to me that the engine itself doesn't have much low end,so the supercharger helps get that going,which in turn spools the turbo for the rest of the power range. How that system is controlled, I don't know.
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redneck20
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Re: Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2011, 07:41:52 PM »

Get lower gears.

You need torque for offroad ....
Im running 37s with dual cases (2.28& 4.7 kit) and 5.29s in the axles .....plenty of power offroad

Unless your doin monster slickrock climbs, which in that case you should ne running stickies anyway..
Sent from my DROIDX
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86 toyota 4runner full cage, sliders, turbo motor, dual cases, 10:1 low, 5.29 gears, chomo shafts F/R, 4 link rear susp w/ coilovers, 37in pitbull rockers, etc.
---not completed yet..
1project2many
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 07:52:49 PM »

Converting the diesel supercharger to use on a gasoline engine is a big deal.  The diesel drives the charger off the back of the crank so the blower rotates counterclockwise.  Changing the SC to clockwise rotation requires replacement of the rotors.  In addition the diesel SC's main function is to provide the slightest amount of pressure to overcome poor cylinder filling due to the 2 stroke's valve timing so it's very inefficient at creating useful amounts of boost.  Changing this requires changing rotor seals.

As far as adding a supercharger goes, I'm sure it could be done if you wanted to do it.  A better way might be to use the two chargers in a parallel fashion rather than a series arrangement with the S/C providing low boost and the turbo used for higher levels.

Practically speaking I wonder why you're not considering a smaller turbo.  Dropping to a T28 or even a T25 will provide boost at a lower rpm than the larger T3.  And switching to a ball bearing turbo will also lower the rpm where boost starts.
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turtlecharged_RN5
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 08:30:08 PM »

I agree with 1project..., there are easier ways to reach the same end result.

A small ball bearing t3 turbo will spool much sooner. A 50 series T3 with a .48 turbine housing should make boost practically just off of idle.

I don't know how big your intercooler and related plumbing is but that can be a factor in lazy low end power. If your plumbing is too large, you will definitely get some more lag and lazy response. Same goes for the intercooler too. You want to size it for your needs, not what will flow a large amount of air. In my street driven truck I have 2" before the intercooler and 2.25" after. Smaller diameters will increase velocity and response.

I don't know what cam you are using but there are ones meant for motor homes and off-road trucks that produce more low end grunt than the stock cam.

And I also do not know what gears you have but lower gears will help your situation too.
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Dirty Dude
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 09:49:41 AM »

I'm a little surprised that Rootes superchargers don't get more attention in situations like this where torque is paramount. Boost response is literally instant.

A few things to keep in mind when twincharging or compound turbocharging:

1.) Pressure ratios multiply each other, not add together. Ignore boost pressure until you get the pressure ratios figured out. or example, set the turbo to feed a 1.5:1 PR(~7.5psi by itself) into the blower and gear the blower to compress that by a ratio of 1.5 and you'll end up with over 18psi going into the engine. 1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25:1 total pressure ratio. (2.25 x 14.7psia) - 14.7psia = 18.3psig.

2.) Twincharging will make the turbo come online much sooner if the turbo size is not adjusted. When picking a turbo for a twincharged engine, treat the supercharged engine as an equivalent, larger NA engine.

I don't know how that will work on a 22rte,but the older out dated transit busses where I live have a 2 stroke v8 detroit deisel that has a roots style supercaharger that is fed by a turbo. They explained to me that the engine itself doesn't have much low end,so the supercharger helps get that going,which in turn spools the turbo for the rest of the power range. How that system is controlled, I don't know.

By virtue of the valved two-stroke design employed by those Detroit diesels, they have absolutely no cylinder scavenging on their own. The supercharger is only used to flush the cylinders with fresh air and supercharged two-stroke Detroits are still considered naturally aspirated and they are still high-strung as diesels go. They sound cool, though. Cool
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No Toyotas ATM, just a '72 Pinto getting a 2.3T swap.
dabsnap400
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 09:05:35 PM »

My truck is on 38x12.5 tsls with a yukon grizzly in the rear, lockrite in the front, 5:29 gears, doubler t cases with stock 2.28 in each case so i think that i do have plenty of gear for going slow but im trying to get rid if the lazyness when im trying to climb a real long steep hill and get some tire speed up, Were i live we have allot of really steep long hill climbs that are clay covered that you have no run at. Pretty much its 4wd high range 2nd gear and slip the clutch to get the turbo to light off rite away. The problem is i just hate doing that to a 350 dollar clutch every time. My intercooler is a front mount unit that's 2 inches thick, 18inch wide core, 6 inches tall so its not very big. Its got a 2 inch inlet and outlet. 2 inch from turbo to intercooler, 2 inch from intercooler to tb. My charger is a .50 cold side, .63 hot. 3 inch down pipe with no cat to a bullet muffler then turn down. I am running  doa turbo cam with head studs and a sce titan hg. Im just really trying to get some low end out of this thing. I believe that my cr ratio is close to stock so i was wondering if i put a re head on it to up my compression ratio a little bit if that would help me out? the only reason i was kicking around the idia of a compounded sc was because i have a few laying around. And as far as the turbo goes I have thought about switching to a .48 hot side like you guys said. How much sooner would the turbo build boost with a .48? I am at full boost (13psi) @3100-3200. Also i have a .48 garret turbine housing set up for internal gate with the turbine shaft, could i adapt that housing to the charger i already have on my truck? Meybe im just getting madd cuz my other buddys that i wheel with all run v8s in their yotas. Kinda hard to compete with 400ftlbs coming from a small block chevy lol
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86 yota pickup 22rte, 4x4, sr5, t3/t4 turbo, intercooled, 13psi boost, SAS, 5 inch trail-gear long travel kit, 5:29 gears, locked front and rear, duel t cases custom bumpers with winch, 38s
86 yota longbed 22rte, 4x4 ,dlx, 5-speed, 9psi, snow plow
Dirty Dude
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 09:57:31 PM »

1.) .50 cold side, .63 hot.

2.)  How much sooner would the turbo build boost with a .48? I am at full boost (13psi) @3100-3200.

3.) Also i have a .48 garret turbine housing set up for internal gate with the turbine shaft, could i adapt that housing to the charger i already have on my truck?

1.) Is that a 0.50 A/R or 50-trim? Is the turbine wheel a stock T3 size?

2.) It might get fuel spool down around 2800....maybe not that much. One downside is that a smaller housing is also going to cause drive pressure to go up and that impacts power in a bad way. If your turbine wheel is a stock T3, then drive pressure is probably already high.

3.) If the housing matches the wheel, yes.
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No Toyotas ATM, just a '72 Pinto getting a 2.3T swap.
redneck20
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 10:18:46 PM »

gotcha...clay sucks! glad we just have rocks here like this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSByuXZDE_4&NR=1

you would be amazed at how many people i know running stock 4.10s with big tires , thats why i suggested it..
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86 toyota 4runner full cage, sliders, turbo motor, dual cases, 10:1 low, 5.29 gears, chomo shafts F/R, 4 link rear susp w/ coilovers, 37in pitbull rockers, etc.
---not completed yet..
dabsnap400
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 10:34:14 PM »

Yeah i know what you are talking about on the people running around on 4:10s most people look over that part and lift it and put some big tires on it. Me gears are the first thing i do b4 i buy my tires. We do have some rocks here but most of my wheelin is tight deep woods trails, mud and allot of skinny pedal to the floor hill climbs. Even though We don't have allot of rocks here in Ohio the duel t case setup has been the best mod yet except the swampers and lockers of course lol
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86 yota pickup 22rte, 4x4, sr5, t3/t4 turbo, intercooled, 13psi boost, SAS, 5 inch trail-gear long travel kit, 5:29 gears, locked front and rear, duel t cases custom bumpers with winch, 38s
86 yota longbed 22rte, 4x4 ,dlx, 5-speed, 9psi, snow plow
dabsnap400
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2011, 10:03:59 AM »

Its a stage 3 compressor with a 2.6 inch inlet (3 inch od clamp on inlet) .50ar. On the turbine hot side its a .63ar stock t3 style with a 2.0 outlet onto my 3 inch dp.  Im also running a internal gate setup Im not to sure of the trim on this charger though. As far as the Garrett .48ar turbine housing goes i have the matching turbine wheel for that housing as well and a o2 housing that is set up for internal gate. Also i am running a custom made top mount manifold. If i could get this thing to spool at full boost at like 2500rpm that would be great!
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86 yota pickup 22rte, 4x4, sr5, t3/t4 turbo, intercooled, 13psi boost, SAS, 5 inch trail-gear long travel kit, 5:29 gears, locked front and rear, duel t cases custom bumpers with winch, 38s
86 yota longbed 22rte, 4x4 ,dlx, 5-speed, 9psi, snow plow
Dirty Dude
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2011, 11:52:35 AM »

Its a stage 3 compressor with a 2.6 inch inlet (3 inch od clamp on inlet) .50ar

Is that a Chinese eBay-type turbo? Sounds to me like it is because there are no "stage 3 compressors" for the T4 series that I know of, only trim levels like a T04E 40-trim, 48-trim, 57-trim, T04B S-trim, H-trim, 60-1, etc. The knock-off sellers never list wheel dimensions, either. Also, the compressor A/R doesn't have much affect on anything. I can't really cross-ref what you have without actual measurements of the compressor wheel. I sure hope the inducer isn't actually 66mm(2.6")...
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No Toyotas ATM, just a '72 Pinto getting a 2.3T swap.
mean buzzen half dozzen
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2011, 05:48:18 PM »

dabsnap400,

I think your .63 turbine A/R is really too big.

There are many different size turbine wheels out there & what I like to do is use a bigger turbine wheel as not to restrict the exhaust flow & run a smaller A/R on the turbine housing as long as the exhaust back pressure is not too high.

I am guessing the .48 A/R is the next step down/smaller?  If that's your only choice I would definately go in that direction .

Here are other things to look @ & think about to help w/turbo spool-up.

Any restriction in the intake, ie airfilter, small intake pipeing to the turbo, plugged cat, small exhaust pipeing,restrictive muffler etc will all cuase the turbo to spool slowly.

What intake filter are you using, exhaust size (pipe), what muffler, straight through design?

I have not checked or searched here  Embarrassed for any mismatch from the turbine housing to the exhaust manifold,, any mismatch steps etc, will cause the turbo to spool slowly & not get max boost.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 05:54:05 PM by mean buzzen half dozzen » Logged
dabsnap400
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 06:51:18 PM »

Yes the turbo that is on the truck now is a cheap ebay turbo. here are the specs on it. It does not have a stage 3 compressor i don't know were i got that from lol
Intake: 3 inch
Inlet: 2 inch
Compressor trim: .50
Compressor Wheel diameter: 50.16 / 76.84
Turbine Wheel diameter: 54.06 / 65.20
Exhaust Trim: .63ar
Turbine flange type : T3 flange
Down pipe flange type: 5 bolt standard

I am running a stock air box with a k&n filter, with a 5 inch hole cut into the side of the lower box for more air. 3 inch from afm to turbo. 3 inch dp, no cat, full 3 inch with 2 glass packs. Home made top mount log style manifold that is all port matched. 2 inch ic piping from turbo to intercooler and intercooler to tb. stock tb. 6"x 18"x 2" front mount intercooler with 2 inch inlet and outlet.

And yes as far as my turbine a .48 would be the next size down.

What size should my charge side be???
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86 yota pickup 22rte, 4x4, sr5, t3/t4 turbo, intercooled, 13psi boost, SAS, 5 inch trail-gear long travel kit, 5:29 gears, locked front and rear, duel t cases custom bumpers with winch, 38s
86 yota longbed 22rte, 4x4 ,dlx, 5-speed, 9psi, snow plow
dabsnap400
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Re: Twin charged 22rte??
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 07:33:35 PM »

I was even thinking of trying this turbo. its cheap lol. What do the specs look like

TURBO SPEC:

GODSPEED gt30 turbo charger

Intake :3 inch
Outlet: 2 inch
Compressor trim: .50 ar
Compressor Wheel diameter: 66.72 /84.25 (big wheel)
Turbine wheel diameter : 43.46 /59.20
Exhaust trim: .48ar

240.00 bucks shipped to my door
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86 yota pickup 22rte, 4x4, sr5, t3/t4 turbo, intercooled, 13psi boost, SAS, 5 inch trail-gear long travel kit, 5:29 gears, locked front and rear, duel t cases custom bumpers with winch, 38s
86 yota longbed 22rte, 4x4 ,dlx, 5-speed, 9psi, snow plow
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