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Author Topic: 400whp possible?  (Read 7178 times)
Fate
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« on: December 02, 2007, 03:15:42 AM »

I'm wanting to give my truck alot more step and was aiming for around 400whp. Just wondering if these little motors are capable or if I should just swap it out.

I was figuring:

.030 Over 9.0:1 Pistons
Shotpeened rods or aftermarkets
Reworked crank
Stage 5 Cam from LCE
New and Stronger Valvetrain
ARP Rods/Bolts throughout
LCE Manifold
GT28R Turbo
Tial WG and BOV with FMIC
650cc Injectors run by Megasquirt


I just want a reliable 400whp that ain't gona break every time its taken out. I want to be able to have a versatile vehicle. Drag, road course, cruise, highway pulls(120-140 or so).

Am I crazy with this engine?
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mosk
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 08:54:58 AM »

I'm wanting to give my truck alot more step and was aiming for around 400whp. Just wondering if these little motors are capable or if I should just swap it out.

I was figuring:

.030 Over 9.0:1 Pistons
Shotpeened rods or aftermarkets
Reworked crank
Stage 5 Cam from LCE
New and Stronger Valvetrain
ARP Rods/Bolts throughout
LCE Manifold
GT28R Turbo
Tial WG and BOV with FMIC
650cc Injectors run by Megasquirt


I just want a reliable 400whp that ain't gona break every time its taken out. I want to be able to have a versatile vehicle. Drag, road course, cruise, highway pulls(120-140 or so).

Am I crazy with this engine?

If you seriously want that much power, you will be better off swapping it out for a 7MGTE or 2JZGTE, or hell, even a SBC. The only way to reach those numbers is to run racing fuel and nitrous, and I think you are going to have to drop the "reliability" requirement. On pump gas, reaching 250 rwhp is a pretty solid achievement.

-Jeff




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Ugly, but probably worth reading: Jeff's 22R-TE Page
Just sayin': If Ronmar and I both post on the same topic, listen to Ronmar! His answers are typically better and more accurate than mine. Cheesy
dcg9381
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2007, 05:19:13 PM »

The GT28R is going to wheeze out long before 400hp.
I'm with Jeff.. 400 maybe on race gas.  Over 300 (flywheel) might be possible street driven on E85 - it's high octane and produces signficantly more exhaust gas flow.
Turbos that can suport that should be GT2871R (Garrett / ball bearing ) - A GT35 series would be better.

The other thing is that I'm not sure the toyota driveline is going to like 400hp.
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celica83_gts
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 07:13:22 PM »

Quote
Am I crazy with this engine?

Yup.

It can be done, but you wouldn't enjoy driving it. There are far better options for high horsepower as stated in the previous posts. 400whp will definitely cause reliability issues as well.

BTW, I am running a GT28R. It works very well on a street motor but is limited to around 250-280hp.
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'83 GTS  22RTE  Garrett GT28R                     
194 whp 247 w lb/ft @ 10psi                           
Supra rear suspension 3.73 LSD
Megasquirt EFI
14.755 @ 93.17

'85 Celica GTS
7M-GTE swap in progress-
Fate
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 09:23:41 PM »

Well since doing a little more research and from what you guys have told me, I'll be going 2jz w/ a 5-spd and building for around 650-800whp and doing mostly highway pulls.
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IslandPSI
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 03:15:39 AM »

I use the GT2871R on my 22r, nice quick spooling turbo, but if you want 400 hp and still keep it 4 cyl .. I'd go for a 2RZ or 3RZ from a Taco and with say a GT3071R or bigger w/.82 housing etc, 400+hp . thats what I shoulda done instead of this 22r turbo hybrid.. but I already had it, so I just said: "Go For It!"  Grin

 But yeah, that 2JZ will be the ticket!  Wink
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Fate
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 06:45:45 AM »

7MGTE, 1JZGTE, and 2JZGTE are all supra motors.

The 2RZ and 3RZ and newer 4cyls out of the Tacos.
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Turbo4Runner
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 10:05:56 PM »

Possible - yes, will it run like you want? Probably not.

You *can* squeeze a ton of power out of a 4 banger if you are willing to run a huge turbo, rev it way up dump a ton of fuel in it and willing to have terrible spool performance. There's plenty of guys putting out 800-900hp out of 2.0 litre's, but they don't drive them around town.

Basically you'd end up with a motor that was a dog below 5000 RPM, then the turbo would finally spool and it'd go like crazy until you shift. Works OK for an All Wheel Drive track car, would be horrible on truck.

I would also add that 9.0 is probably higher compression then you would want to run on a boosted motor. Cramming air into the cylinders already creates very high cylinder pressure. If you start with high compression and add boost avoiding detonation becomes a huge challenge.

These guys have a lot of good info about swapping a Supra motor into our trucks:
http://supracharged.com/
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'87 4Runner
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2007, 04:29:55 AM »

I'm wanting to give my truck alot more step and was aiming for around 400whp. Just wondering if these little motors are capable or if I should just swap it out.

I was figuring:

.030 Over 9.0:1 Pistons
Shotpeened rods or aftermarkets
Reworked crank
Stage 5 Cam from LCE
New and Stronger Valvetrain
ARP Rods/Bolts throughout
LCE Manifold
GT28R Turbo
Tial WG and BOV with FMIC
650cc Injectors run by Megasquirt


I just want a reliable 400whp that ain't gona break every time its taken out. I want to be able to have a versatile vehicle. Drag, road course, cruise, highway pulls(120-140 or so).

Am I crazy with this engine?
It could be done, but not with the combo you've described. You'd be into serious fuel management (MOTEC), and an 8 injector system. Race fuel only, and no lifespan. I'm with the masses on this one, go with the latest proven monster JZ. It won't take much to get 500 on pump, but it will cost you to do it "right."
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steedspeed
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2008, 02:16:13 PM »

For fuel enrichment I'd suggest methanol injection.  You can run very high numbers on pump + meth which are close to race fuel combined + it can be "iced" to cool the charge air for more power.

400hp is very easy to achieve for about 10 seconds!  After that you need another set of pistons.
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celicagts22re
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 04:32:00 PM »

yes the supra motors are very powerful as we all know but they are not the greatest on gas, im still a student and i drive a 85 celica gts convertible, and gas is a problem for me because im a everyday driver, so im going to stick with the 4 banger 22r, does anyone know of any fast 22r cars/trucks out there because i havent even seen any videos of this motor pullin other racers with the new motors, also whats the max hp before you have to change out the crank shaft and re sleeve the cylinders?
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mosk
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2008, 08:06:11 PM »

[snip]  whats the max hp before you have to change out the crank shaft and re sleeve the cylinders?

The 22R series has a factory forged crank and a cast iron block with a high nickel content -- on a non-stroked motor,  the head/headgasket will give before the block or crank. If you are really worried, I believe LC sells a set of external bracing panels that can be bolted to the block like an exoskeleton.

-Jeff
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Ugly, but probably worth reading: Jeff's 22R-TE Page
Just sayin': If Ronmar and I both post on the same topic, listen to Ronmar! His answers are typically better and more accurate than mine. Cheesy
dcg9381
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 09:44:27 PM »


You can't find lots of videos because there aren't a lot of these cars that can pull a modern sports car.

The guys at www.celica-gts.com may be able to point you to videos and "kill" stories.  Modern Hondas - naturally aspirated - easily put down 100hp per Liter.  Turbo versions.. I've seen ridiculous dynos.  Modern V8 cars, 20+ mpg, 300-400hp - and that's entry level GMs and Ford... Technology has come a long way since the old days of .25 gas and big block motors.

I don't think the 22R motor is the greatest motor on gas.. If you think the Celica is fuel efficient, it's probably more of a function of weight, size, and wind resistance.  I really don't know the Supra design, but I'd bet that it's not far from the 22R in terms of volumetric efficiency... Putting it into a smaller, lighter vehicle always helps... Keeping your foot out of it helps too.

Swap a supra or do a well-designed modern turbo motor swap if you want to keep up with modern muscle cars...  Otherwise, have deep pockets.
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GRUNNER
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2008, 09:32:52 PM »

Why dosen't anyone suggest a water/methanol kit? You could run 87 octane w/ a 20% methane mix and be somewhere around 115 octaine. This is better than most "racing gas" considering they are really expensive and would be hard to find w/ over 110 octaine. But as far as any engine goes more hp+less reliabilty. 22rte or 2jzgte. Double the stock hp and decreese the engine life by more than half. Pluse a 2jz is great for top end but you won't beable to keep traction in a truck. It would sure suck to be going 100mph and break your tires loose. 
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1988SupraDreams
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2008, 12:32:32 AM »

Being a supra owner has taught me a lot of things about the inline sixes.  IMO, If you're going to swap a 7M into anything be ready to go through the motor.  The engine is riddled with problems with oiling and head issues.  If you want to build a 7M that boosts more than maybe 11PSI, have deep pockets.  The 2JZ is a better route, it has a MHG and is not riddled with problems like the 7M.  In addition 7Ms are getting harder and more expensive to find all in one piece, but if you don't mind putting one together out of a junkyard and going through it to begin with, then the 7M would be the way to go. 

In general, the 2J makes more HP, and the 7M makes more torque.  If you are doing a 4x4 or aren't going to be doing any crazy high speed pulls, then the 7M would be a good choice.  What I'm currently doing before I get started on my celica is putting a 2JZGTE in my 3rd gen supra with a single turbo and taking my modified 7MGTE and putting it in my '85 4x4.  I'm almost done putting the truck together, and I'm waiting on my turbo for the Supra.  Ahh, the joys of being single with no kids, all the money I want to dump into my toys Cheesy.
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