All 22RTE, all the time => 22RTE - General discussion => Topic started by: psychohamster on August 25, 2018, 05:07:46 AM

Title: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on August 25, 2018, 05:07:46 AM
I've been having an idle issue for a long time now. I set my idle RPM @ 800 as per speck but as of lately it would drop to 600 and idle a bit rough. I took apart the Idle Air Control Valve and it looked fine. So I kept on driving, until it suddenly had a bad misfire. So I figured I'd check the plugs. I pulled #1 and it was oil fouled bad but #2, 3 and 4 showed normal color patterns. So I wire brushed #1 and swapped it with #2. Truck ran perfect. It idled smooth with no engine shake at all. Good response and acceleration. I drove it a mile or so and it had a slight shake at idle. I pulled the #1 plug and it was damp with oil. The engine oil looks fine with no condensation and there is no oil in the radiator at all. I did a compression test and it was at 150 lbs. I need to do a leakdown test once I get a tester. The engine has less then 5000 miles on it so I don't suspect it's the rings. I believe it could be the valve seal since the fouling is only in one cylinder.
Am I missing another possible cause and with a new engine what is an exceptable leakdown percentage? A mechanic told me with such a fresh engine it shouldn't be more then 10%.
I'm dreading the possibility of pulling the head for a single valve seal ( a $1 part), but I don't want to keep changing that plug while the cylinder gets gunked up with oil sludge.
I also posted a topic asking if it was possible to change the valve seal without pulling the valve train. Some say yes, most say no.
I'm not sure if it makes a difference but I recently switched over to full synthetic oil.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on August 28, 2018, 07:18:15 PM
I just talked to a tech from the company that build the long block (Yota 1 Performance A good place with many parts).
He said the best way to diagnose the problem is to split the intake and bore scope the intake valve for oil. If that's the case it'll be a valve seal, if I scope the piston and it is carboned in the center and "clean" around the edges it would indicate a possible ring issue. He mentioned it could be the turbo, but I figure if it was wouldn't it affect more then just one cylinder? He also informed me that it's virtually impossible to do a valve seal without removing the rocker assembly, but he has personally removed and replaced it without replacing the head gasket. I'm hoping for a valve stem seal at this point. I need to find a scope now and I'll update this post as soon as I have an update.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on August 29, 2018, 08:13:09 PM
I swapped my plugs yesterday. Drove around the block and it ran fine and I parked it for the night.
I went out this morning started it and it ran bad. I pulled the number 1 plug and it was oil fouled.
It only smokes for a few seconds after I change the plug and not at any other time.
I'm thinking that it must be the intake valve seal and it leaks on the plug when the engine stops and the valve is open.
I'm going to dig into it deeper in a couple of days.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on October 21, 2018, 07:24:00 PM
I've been puling my plugs and inspecting them about every week and they aren't oily anymore, they are sooty. So what I thought was an oil issue turns out to fuel related. I got an 02 sensor CEL dash light warning twice {5 blips), so I replaced the sensor with a new Denso unit. I just did it yesterday so it's to early to tell if there isn't another issue causing the condition. Initially it did feel like it had a much smoother power band when I drove it but I still want to test other fuel related components to verify the problem is fixed instead of going through a cycle of putting a bandaid on a bullet hole by just swapping out the weakest link in the chain. I believe something like a leaky fuel injector could cause a rich condition that could lead to it affecting the 02 Sensor.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on October 26, 2018, 05:03:47 PM
I've had a bad O2 sensor before and the result was sooty plugs like you describe. Is it all of your plugs or just #1? Have you ever had the injectors cleaned and balanced? Costs $60-$100. Are you sure there isn't any oil fouling at the electrode?


Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on October 26, 2018, 11:51:39 PM
At first it appeared I had an oil foul issue but I believe it was just running rich. I got a code 5 twice so I replaced the o2 sensor and it seemed to smooth it out but I am losing oil and my exhaust is clear now. I need to get under it and see if I have a leak somewhere. I'm going to put in some fresh plugs and hopefully pull and clean my injectors next month. After changing my o2 it seems my gas mileage has increased but it will take some time to be sure. It's only plug #1 that was fouling, all the rest read normal.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on October 27, 2018, 04:48:12 PM
Sounds like you are doing all the right things. Have you actually swapped the # 1 plug with another too see if the plug was and or just keep cleaning it and reinstalling it back into the cylinder? Have you checked the spark plug wire?


Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on October 27, 2018, 05:41:56 PM
I've swapped the plug and wire locations between #1 & #2 and get the same results. It's got to be something. That's why I am led to believe it is a dirty/faulty injector but why wouldn't it do it when the engine is cold? That to me doesn't make sense. It's got to be something. I need to order the orings and pintle covers before I dig into it and clean the injectors. I need to make sure the temp sensor is also sending a correct signal. The gauge rarely ever shows the engine as being cold and the needle will go straight up to it's normal operating temp within seconds of initial start up but I've owned this truck for 20 years and that has always been the case so I'm left guessing and searching. It just takes time and patience.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on October 28, 2018, 08:23:22 PM
The injector rebuilders That I mentioned in your other thread will supply all of the O rings and pintle covers. Maybe it doesn't show up when the engine is cold is because it simple needs a richer mixture until it warms up.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on October 29, 2018, 01:54:43 AM
I had originally thought it could be the same too rich when warm injector leak scenario as the culprit also. I need to get the gaskets and orings and pull them. I'd have them rebuilt professionally but I can't afford the downtime right now. I have a couple of extra injectors that I'll check and clean to use as backups if the existing units are bad.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on November 03, 2018, 08:11:24 PM
I still don't want to go through pulling out my injectors. Maybe I'm lazy or that I am not 100% sure they are the issue. So I was at my friends house and was looking through all his various chemicals and I found about 20 cans of 3M injector cleaner. It is a regular looking can but it uses a special screw on nozzle that has a long hose to it. You slide the small hose under the rubber intake pipe connector at the throttle body then hook it up to the can which you hang upside down and run the engine at 1000 rpm until the can is empty. It takes about 10 minutes. My friend said he has used it many times at work with good results. He says he normally runs 2 - 3 cans. I looked on Youtube and viewed a few guys running it and I figure I'll give it a try. Plus I will check the injector ohm resistance to see if they are with specs. If that doesn't do anything then I'll contemplate checking all my other components like fuel pressure, regulator, etc. I put a new toyota fuel filter on it when I swapped the engine so it shouldn't be a concern at this point. I am also wondering if the cold start injector could be prone to leaking. 

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on November 04, 2018, 08:21:46 PM
I'm not carzy about "mechanic in a can", but I have used "Sea Foam" on occasion. can be used in the fuel or through a vacuum port.

It the cold start injector was leaking, I would think it would affect allof the plugs.

Yep, you could be getting lazy. changing injectors is a 2 hour job at most. You have spent more time than that posting. just say'n!  :)

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on November 10, 2018, 03:35:20 AM
My problem is that I am not sure my problem really is the injectors, so I'm hesitant about forking out hundreds to replace them (since I can't have a lot of downtime) when the problem maybe something else. I am no pro at this detailed diagnostic troubleshooting stuff but I usually do pretty good. I'm just trying to avoid an expensive parts chase.
That being said today I found a vacuum leak on the wastegate hose (Garret GT25R), so to get to it I had to remove the AFM to turbo inlet hose and the pipe from the turbo to the throttle body. Once I got them off I found they were dripping with oil. I have been burning a lot of oil lately, about 1 quart every 500 - 800 miles. The oil appears to be coming from the front valve cover breather hose where it hooks up to the intake hose just after the AFM. So I fixed my vacuum leak and cleaned out the oil in the intake hose and pipes and put it all back together. I fired it up and it did run fine. My vacuum at idle increased from a steady 19 to just over 20. So i took it for a test drive. It ran great yet when I went down a steep hill in second gear with no throttle for 1/8 mile and stopped, as soon as I hit the gas to pull away I got a big puff out the tailpipe. It lasted a second or two and cleared up. Lately I have noticed if I jump on it hard or let it idle for a few minutes I this happens.
Yesterday I put in a fresh set of Denso plugs and after 10 miles pulled #1 (my problem cylinder) and it was as black as if I had spray painted it.
Since this is my son's engine he wants me to take it to his Toyota mechanic and have it tested. BTW my PVC and grommet on the other hose is new as are all the vacuum hoses.
I've read where guys install an oil catch can but why is this engine doing this when none of my other 22 rte's ever did.
At this point I think it might be good to have someone who knows this stuff (this guy is a factory trained Toyota guy) and pinpoint what the problem really is instead of me just throwing darts at it.
I'll won't abandon this post until I relay whats been found and what it takes to correct this problem.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on November 15, 2018, 08:01:00 AM
Bad news. The mechanic found the issue. A failure in the #1 cylinder wall. I will get a more definite detailed account on Friday when I go see him. I'm just amazed how well this thing ran with this type of damage. Other than the oil plug foul issue it ran good compression test numbers. This guy got the engine from a toyota engine parts supplier/builder and it has less then 5,000 on it so he might be able to get some kind of warranty type assistance from them. We'll see. Hopefully. I'll post more as it develops.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on November 16, 2018, 03:15:44 AM

This is the scoped image of cylinder #1 where I have been having all my problems. The engine was bought new as a longblock and has less then 5,000 miles. It even has one of those heat tabs that shows if it has overheated. I'm hoping 209yota1 will do something to remedy this situation as this clearly is a material failure. Hopefully we find out soon. I'll post more as it develops.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on November 18, 2018, 02:47:00 AM
Yikes! I didn't see that one coming! What are the options? New block? bore all od cylinders? Sleeve?

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on November 18, 2018, 05:27:47 AM
Right now it all comes down to what the supplier is willing to do. I'm fearful they will claim it is not under any warranty and I'll be shit out of luck. My son and I have done business with them in the past by buying parts and they even rebuilt a transmission for us too. Hopefully they can do something as this is an issue that is way out of anything imaginable, at least to me and others including mechanics. Who can afford to replace an engine every 5,000 miles? Right now it is burning a quart of oil every tank of gas and fouling plugs every 100 miles but it doesn't noticeably smoke except after a long deceleration or if you jump on it at cruising speed. I was perplexed that the problem seamed to be it was only fouling #1 plug and I had a noticeable amount of blow by coming from the front valve cover breather hose into the intake hose right after the AFM. I contacted a tech at the supplier a few months ago about this problem and he said it was either the rings or a valve issue and never mentioned this was a possibility. I have just found out that when the engine was first shipped it was seized and had to be sent back so I'm wondering if it was returned and reshipped with it being predisposed to its current condition whether apparent or not. I have always had an issue with high oil consumption but I just attributed that to a long break in until I had a total #1 plug failure due to oil fouling (the electrode was caked solid). I really can't afford to repair this again and I don't have a place to part it so I might have to scrap the truck or sell it for virtually nothing.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on November 18, 2018, 05:28:23 PM
Oh man....I am hoping for a fair solution

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on November 30, 2018, 03:50:50 AM
OK, the latest update as of 11/29. I talked to the mechanic that originally put in the engine and he said he has talked to the supplier/builder. First issue is we are about a year past the one year warranty. Second, they are questioning the turbo, I guess they might suspect a pressure issue. Third, when the mechanic scoped the engine and found the defect in the cylinder wall he also noticed the engine was built with flat top pistons and not the dished pistons used in the RTE. So at this point I'm waiting for everyone to discuss what course of action is going to happen. Should the one year warranty prevail over the incorrect parts being used? I'll post when I know more.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on December 07, 2018, 05:37:46 PM
Any updates?

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on December 08, 2018, 02:37:13 AM
Not yet, I plan to contact the mechanic sometime next week. He did the work so I figured he would be the best one to deal with it. I'll post with any updates.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on December 15, 2018, 12:41:33 PM
Nothing new as of today. Everything is still being discussed.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on December 16, 2018, 05:30:34 PM
Hope you get good news by Christmas!

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on January 13, 2019, 03:55:27 AM
The Builder/Supplier hasn't answered the mechanics Email inquiries about what actions are possible so next week I plan to call them and if needed I will drive the 2+ hours to the location and find out first hand what my options are. The biggest pain for me is that now I am burning a quart of oil every 100 miles and changing #1 plug every 300 - 500, it's progressively getting worse. It's a real bitch to think that with an engine that only has around 5,000 miles you shouldn't have to wonder if everytime you turn the key is that engine could seize on any revolution. I'm really fed up with every time I need to go more then a few miles from home will I get stranded.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: psychohamster on January 14, 2019, 09:07:14 PM
I contacted Yoda1 Performance today and talked to a technician. He said the cylinder wall damage is extremely unusual. He said it looked more like a burn rather then a hole and it was probably caused by some foreign matter introduced into the engine. Regardless the engine needs to be removed, shipped and disassembled (this will be the second time for this engine to be shipped back). As far as I understand it, at that time a plan of action can only be determined. As I understand it I will be liable for all costs other then possibly parts.
I also mentioned that I was told by the mechanic that the engine was scoped by found it had flat top 22re pistons instead of the dished 22rte slugs. I'm not even sure it has a turbo head on it. I am taking the truck to the mechanic and having it scoped so it can be inspected further, photographed all info forwarded to the builder so they can make a determination of what (if anything) they will do.
It sure is a bitch when your only vehicle goes down.

Title: Re: Fouled Spark Plug
Post by: ReelDeal on January 15, 2019, 06:34:36 AM
Oh man, that really sucks. I hope it gets resolved. If it had the 22re pistons, I would think your compression would be north of 175psi. The non-turbo head is actually a plusIMO.

Good luck.